Episode 7: Acceptance
~music - “Wake me up, loud as clouds..all my love for you. You’re a dreamer, I am too. it’s f**king normal we could rule the world”...
Lauren Fenton 0:17
This is the f**king normal podcast, the cheers, tears and Friday night beers of parenting disabled children.
Rina Teslica 0:24
I'm Rina,
Lauren Fenton 0:25
and I'm Lauren.
Rina Teslica 0:26
And we're both mothers to daughters with special needs. Parenting a disabled child can often feel difficult to navigate. If this is you, you're not alone. We're here to share unique parenting stories, and chat about the things that we've learned and are still learning.
Lauren Fenton 0:40
Prepare to sometimes laugh, sometimes cry, but hopefully leave with a shot of optimism in your arm. And don't forget we are talking from a parent's perspective. We would never presume to talk on behalf of a disabled child or adult. So expect bad language and quite frankly some brutal honesty.
Rina Teslica 1:00
Because really what the f**k is normal anyway?
Genevieve Porritt 1:15
Hello, and welcome to the last episode in this series of the f**king normal podcast. Things are a bit different this week, the f**king normal community have asked to hear a little more from our hosts. I'm Genevieve you may recognise me from episode one where I had the honour of being the first podcast guest. Well, now it's my turn haha. And today I'm going to be putting our hosts in the hot seat and finding out more about their stories.
Lauren Fenton 1:52
I mean, thanks lonely Gen, for coming back.
Genevieve Porritt 1:55
It's the nervousness. I think. I was gonna ask how are you both and how are you feeling about being on the other side of the mic?
Rina Teslica 2:05
You have all the power, which I hate. So,
Lauren Fenton 2:08
yeah, you know, I feel okay about it. I guess we just need to, yeah, tell a bit more of our stories.
Genevieve Porritt 2:15
So the theme of today is going to be about acceptance, something that has come up really often in all of our episodes with our other guests and something we'd like to hear more about from the both of you. We'd like to hear about the stories from the beginning, all the way to where you are now. I'll start with a little introduction to our wonderful co hosts. Lauren is mum to Olivia and B and lives with her husband Patrick in North London, originally from Newcastle upon Tyne. Lauren has lived in London since 2005 and now considers herself a bit of a southern softy. As well as hosting the f**king normal podcast. Lauren is a school governor, Governor a fellow pond swimmer wonderful pianist and runner. In fact, she's off to do the London Marathon this weekend for Great Ormond Street a cause as you can imagine close to all of our hearts and our wonderful Rina mummy to Lua and a fellow North Londoner. Although not born here, she has lived in the city since her parents emigrated from Kosovo in the 90s. Away from motherhood and podcasting. Rina is a copywriter for an online beauty retailer. She loves yoga, True Crime podcasts and a good cold pint with the f**king normals. So let's find out more.
Why don't we start with you Rina. Tell us about pregnancy and Lua's birth and how things were in those early days for you and your family.
Rina Teslica 3:54
I fell pregnant with Lua out of the blue. She was an unplanned pregnancy, but obviously very happy. And then in the initial scan, they kind of found that something was amiss with her nuchal fluid being kind of triple what it needed to be. And we had the amniocentesis, which came back clear, that in itself was like, incredibly stressful. Just the waiting, like you've done something and then you're just waiting for the answers. And it took a good like two weeks and I swear to God, I was like, glued to my phone, just waiting for that doctor's appointment. And when they call It's so annoying. Why did they do this? Like we're working so obviously it goes straight to message. And then they're like, can you call us back?
Lauren Fenton 4:40
Yeah they're not allowed to give the information in a message...
Rina Teslica 4:43
At least say like nothing to worry about or say look, it's quite urgent, do you mind like ringing us back. So you kind of like put to bed basically your stress but no, it was like Can you call us back? Oh, can you come in actually it wasn't even call us back. Can you come in? I was like, really? Oh yeah. I was like, shit, man, this is crap, this is gonna be something awful. We went back and it was clear. I was like Jesus Christ, like all of that for this, you know. So from then it was much calmer. And I kind of got to enjoy our pregnancy a little bit more. I was like, okay, cool. And then your body starts to change. And that in itself is something else. And then we had another scan, and they kind of were like, Oh, hold on her heart, there's something amiss. But we can't tell from the scans, what's going on. But there's something and I was like, Oh, not again, like, what is this? But I think my anxiety because of kind of that initial 12 week scan, I was like, Oh, God, there's something going on. So Lua would just never be still during the scan. So we never got a full picture throughout the nine months at all of what was going on. So there was always a question mark of, everything's fine. She's growing right. Like she's meeting all the bits, the percentiles of growth and head shapes fine, and all the fingers and toes and everything. But just there's something. So it wasn't until she was born that we kind of got more of a picture. She was born. My birth was very relaxed. I had lots of classical music. And it was just, I could not imagine a better birth. Considering all the stress of the pregnancy, the birth was like the best bit. And yes, I was drugged to the nines, but it was like, relaxing, and it was fine. And she came out. They put her on my chest, but she was blue. And then it was like, Oh, crap, had to be intubated immediately shipped to the NICU. We had, they'd already told us that she would go to the NICU immediately, because there was this question mark about her heart. And obviously, it's when they're little and heart conditions, you know, it's quite deadly if it's not picked up and treated immediately. We always assumed that it was something that could be fixed with a surgery once she was born. So we kind of went in with that idea that there's something going on with the heart, and it could be fixed. And then she'll stay in hospital for a bit, and then we'd go home. And that would be that. That's it. So that's kind of how I went into it. And I was prepared. Like it wasn't when she was taken away to the NICU. It wasn't like a shock to me. It was just like, I already know that this is the journey that I'm on. Right. So I'd already accepted that I wouldn't have her in the ward with me and all of that..
Lauren Fenton 7:29
Was that helpful at the time do you think?
Rina Teslica 7:31
Oh, yeah, massively.
I think it would have been much worse if she was born. And then suddenly, they're like, Oh, God, we're going to intubate her, I'm going to take her away from you, I think I would have lost my mind. But I already knew that that was going to happen, I already knew that Arbs would go with her. And that's, that's also why my mum was at the birth with me. So she'd say with me, and he was off with her. So I wasn't alone. Which was very helpful. And I love that having said that, once I had given birth, obviously, I had to be moved to a different ward. And I was waiting there had the curtains drawn, I'll never forget, and this woman put this woman in that room, there was like three other women in there, all were the curtains closed, so we couldn't see anything. She was like moaning clearly in labour. And they were like, hold on, hold on. We're just getting the room ready for you. Like, hold on, don't push. And she was there. And she happened to be Albanian. And she was there with her husband and her two sons because I could hear them talking. And she was in labour. And she says to her husband in Kosovon, and like, go and get me some water. Just get out of here. So she shipped him off. And she starts going, Oh, my God, oh my God, oh, my God. And then all I hear is "waaa" "waaa" and she like, just gives birth. I was. It was that moment where I was. I just broke down, was like that bitch, gets to give birth in five minutes and has her baby on her chest. And it's all fine. Like the nurses rushed in and they were like, What the f**k? We told you to wait, but also Oh my God, and they measured him and I could hear it all. And I was just in tears. And the nurse my nurse came in like open the curtain saw me and was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. And she just moved me away. Thankfully, they put me on a ward with other mums whose kids were also in the news. So none of us on that Ward had our kids with us, which was so helpful because I couldn't stand hearing other children like other babies crying and mothers dealing with our kids. So it was very nice to be on quiet room. I think that's just incredibly important. I think I would have it would have just been horrible if I was to hear other parents but anyway, so I was that bit upset me but also, I already knew that this is kind of how it was going to be. And then we I went to see Lua and like six hours after I'd given birth to her and she was there taking the intubation out that she was wasn't intubated. She was asleep. but she looked so peaceful and sweet. And I wanted to pick her up and the nurse was like, No, you can't hold her yet. So I've got pictures of me with my hand on her tummy. And that's it. And I was like, I was immediately like, Who the f**k you to tell them what to do with my kid. But also, she's connected to all these cables. I don't even know how to pick her up. And all the motions, so I was quite bitch. And I thought why. Also, I was like 25, and a bit of a, that she's my kid. And she's like, she's been poked and prodded in touch so much, in her first six hours, just give her some time to just calm. And that also then made me feel really selfish. So I was like, Okay, fine. But it's your natural instinct, as a mother to want it you. You need that hormone in your body is asking to connect to that baby. So it's come takes you completely out of what's coming natural to you, too. Was the six hours because you'd had an epidural. So yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it was like, but I slept. And I was, it was such a strange kind of time, because I had kind of given myself like, I don't even know how to describe it. But I had just given myself up to this situation. So I just went with the flow, like, Okay, I've given birth, she's over there. I'm going to rest. And I'm not going to think about anything else. So it was like, very calming, I was really calm. I don't know if it was just like, all of the hormones or something going on, in my mind, but I was just really calm. Like, I think if that had happened to me, now, I would be a mess. But I was just calm, like, Okay, this has happened. Let's get on with it. It was also I think, quite a, I think I detached from the situation quite a lot. And it wasn't until kind of a couple of months later where other things went on that like the penny dropped. And I was like, Oh, shit, oh, this is life now. So it did take a long time for me to kind of accept the situation. A question on acceptance there.
it was just it was a whirlwind. Anyway, we ended up being in hospital for seven and a half months. And wow, yeah, at four months, she got her tracheostomy. So those four months, it was like touch and go every day. We didn't know whether she'd survive like that day. And I think I blocked out how dire the situation was, until a nurse, I became friends with the nurses there. Obviously, you're spending like 12 hours a day there, you'd inevitably gonna get talking and make some really strong connections. And I think one of the nurses realised that I was not understanding the situation, like what what's going on or how where Lua is in terms of her health. And she said to me, I think it was horrible. But also I needed the reality check. Like I needed to understand what was happening. She said, I was looking through, you know, at the end of the beds, they have the paperwork with all the drugs and things and the charts and whatever. And we're not allowed to look at it. And I, which is ridiculous, because it's like your child, you should be able to know what they're writing about your child what's going on, whatever. Anyway, she had like three different drugs on the side, that they weren't on her charts. And I was like what's this. She's like, do you really want to know? And I was like, Yeah, of course, like, What the hell is it and she's like, we have Lua's three meds in case her heart stops and what to do if she passes, or if she's dying, basically, we have that on her chart at the top of the page, because we are waiting for it, basically. I was like, it's something they'll need to know immediately, so it has to be there. And I was like, what?, what?, what do you mean, her heart's gonna stop? She's like, her heart rate. It was like 220 That was like resting heart rate. Yeah. Which is incredibly fast. baby's heart rates are fast anyway, but that's like, double what it should be. They're like, usually in the hundreds and she's 220s resting, sleeping. So they were like, it looks as if her heart will stop because it's gonna give up if it's beating that fast. You know? I was like, Oh, shit, what the f**k, and I kind of like, dropped. Just it was just it was like a tonne of bricks. And I was like, Oh, wow. Okay. And then I was like, Okay, I'm going to love this child as much as I can, while I'm here. It gave me more motivation to like be there even more consistently. So like, I wouldn't even go downstairs to get a sandwich and go down and get it to eat it by her bed. So I would not leave her side at all until she got her tracheostomy. And I think that just changed her life because her heart rate was beating so fast because she needed to breathe. So that's why her heart rate was so fast. But once you got the tracheostomy, she could breathe easier. So her heart rate came down, the drugs disappeared from the charts. She was much calmer. I started to take days off. So my mom would kind of be like, I know you're obsessed with being by her bedside, I will look after her for like, three, four hours. Go Go away, leave us even the nurses would say, enough. Just go
Lauren Fenton 15:29
How did that feel at the time? Could you do that?
Rina Teslica 15:33
I was so exhausted. And yeah, I was like, I need to get away. But then the guilt when you're away, you're like, oh, man, what if something happened, and I will never forget. One of those days where I took a day off and I literally just went, I wanted to do something normal, and something that I used to enjoy doing. So like I wanted to go shopping. I hadn't been shopping since pre like buying baby clothes and like the enjoyment of that as I want to emulate that kind of vibe. So I'm gonna go shopping. I was out for an hour and the nurses called me they're like her heart rate is really high. Come back. And I was like, Oh my f**king god, what? I ran back literally, I got back to the hospital within half an hour, walked in, I picked her up, sat down. And I just watched the monitor a so it was like to something dip, dip, dip dip dip as soon as she was immediately Wow, it was like insane. I was like you little shit. You missed your mummy, you didn't even want me to have like a day off. And the nurses would laugh because I was self preserving in that time, I didn't. I was too afraid to build a connection with her. I was like she could go at any time. So I can't I don't want to build a connection with her just in case she goes.
Genevieve Porritt 16:51
Were you actually cognitively thinking that though or that you're now you look back, you realise that?
Rina Teslica 16:56
Now I look back, I realise that's what I was doing protecting you protecting myself. So I knew she was my daughter. I loved her all of that. But I didn't want looking back to be as connected to her and I because she was watching us and kind of just laying she couldn't turn she couldn't lift her head. She couldn't do anything. So I didn't realise that she had already built a connection with me. I knew that she had built one with us because he does skin to skin with her immediately. So when he would be around her eyes would just be drawn to him with me. I would be like she thinks I'm a carer. She thinks I'm a nurse like she has no, she doesn't understand that I'm her mummy. But when that happened with a heart rate dip here I was like, oh,
Lauren Fenton 17:39
She's like you're not going shopping without me mum. We are shopping together from now on okay.
Rina Teslica 17:45
I needed that. And it just it started that process of me building that connection with her because I realised that actually, she feels something for me. It's very strange. And like very, you don't realise these things as you're living through. I didn't realise any of this until I had therapy. And you start to think about how you acted previously. But anyway, so that happened. And then so that was four months. And then once you have a tracheostomy, you have to have your your home ready, you have to have carers in place. You have to be trained in order to deal with the tracheostomy and the tapes, and oh, Allah. So it took another three months before we were signed off to come home. So then once I came home, that was a whole other. It was petrifying. And also because I had, I had left her alone with nurses overnight, and then in the mornings or whatever. Like when you're in hospital, you literally, you get very spoiled as a parent because you can literally be like, hello, I need some help. Can someone run her a bath? Can someone get me this? Can you get me this? Did it uh, when you're at home alone, because you're obviously Arbs went back to work, home alone with this baby, who was connected to these machines and fully my responsibility now. I was petrified. I was so scared of like everything.
Genevieve Porritt 19:14
And now eight months older, eight months old, as well. So you hadn't had the full experience of everything of I don't know the amount of nappy changing that there is the feeding and all of that there was... no.
Rina Teslica 19:30
there's like, here's your baby. She literally felt like a newborn. You know how like some parents say: they give birth to this kid and then off you go, is your responsibility. Yeah, literally, it was so scary. And obviously I had the carers in the night. So once when they would come in, I'll be like, hoof, I can breathe like now she's your responsibility and I get to go and like, relax, because it's intense. Although she wasn't doing much she wasn't feeding like everything was machine operated. It was still petrifying because she'd been so unwell for so long. And like the tiniest sniffle, a little bit of a runny nose, I'd be like, Well, that's it. We're being shipped back, of course, I was constantly worried that they were going to take away
Genevieve Porritt 20:15
on a much higher level than other mums would be with their newborn.
Rina Teslica 20:20
Yes. Wow. Yeah, it was intense. It was crazy.
Genevieve Porritt 20:25
I suppose as well, you hadn't had the experience that other parents may have had with going to mother and baby classes and experience of seeing other children's similar ages? How did that affect you then being at home at that point?
Rina Teslica 20:46
it was... when we were in the hospital, we were on a ward with children, there was two other children with tracheostomies and another little boy who had similar, he didn't have a tracky, but he was very similarly ill like Lua. So we had like a sort of gang in the room. So she had some engagement with other children, but it was not. It's in a hospital setting. Like there's only so much you can do, you know. Once we came back, I was so scared that she'd get ill, or something would happen. I just retreated like, I would not go to baby mum, baby classes like at all. I left the house to go on a walk when I got really depressed, and I needed to get out the house, or go and take her to appointments. And at that age, she had appointments like three times a week, every week, it was intense. I wouldn't leave or anything else. So I just wanted, i'd finally had her back, like not back but like I had her all to myself was not going to spend any time doing anything else. Just bonding and trying to build a bond and try and keep her healthy, happy and safe. So I didn't do anything else. It was intense. I forget, I really forget how much we had gone through. Like you are honestly like on a train with like blinders on. And you're just as a fellow guest said you just keep trucking like yeah, just don't think about it until
Lauren Fenton 22:20
you've got no choice. Yeah. My early days experience was quite different. I was, I think, largely in denial, for at least the first year of her life. And so I was at that point, trying to do all the interaction and young baby stuff, the stuff that I'd done with Olivia. So it's sort of had an experience of it that I tried to sort of semi replicate with Bea and yeah, and keep busy. And that was kind of not perhaps what we both needed at times. I guess I'll tell my birth story as well. Yeah, it just to kind of Rewind. So pregnancy was relatively normal and very similar to you, my birth was... I mean, god every birth's different and and then every birth at some at some level, even if it's horrendous, is beautiful. But I feel like Bea's birth was it was so quick. I mean, it was like three hours. She just like wooshed out. Wow. And yeah, the one thing I remember really is feeling like my body completely just was like, don't even think Lauren, I'm taking over. It knew what to do. It knew exactly what to do and in fact in the hospital. Like when they went in. They were like, oh, not sure that you're in and they looked to me. Oh, yeah, you are. Like I was like four or five centimetres. Anyway, so yeah, she came really quickly. And it was all like a blur. I didn't have any pain relief or anything. It was all just so fast.
Rina Teslica 23:50
Kudos to you.
Lauren Fenton 23:51
Well no, it was like it was kind of no choice. It was just, this is happening now. Yes, it's happening now. Anyway, so she was born and they did the initial you know, weighing the baby and stuff. And then she I had her and then Patrick went home because we had a one year old at home. So he went back to see Olivia who was with my mum. And I stayed overnight. And because it was late, I ended up staying in a room next to where I'd given birth on the labour ward. And I was kind of left on overnight on my own with Bea and I knew something was not quite right. I hate saying that. But you know like something there was she was struggling with feeding. I couldn't get her to feed. I kept buzzing the nurses all through the night and they kept coming in and just being like, Oh, it's just all this mucus from the birth. But I just had this feeling. Anyway, next morning I sort of put it back in my mind got her dressed
Rina Teslica 24:51
Going home outfit?
Lauren Fenton 24:52
It was like a first because we had to go to have the proper head to toe review, which gives you another room for that. So I put her in like all these clothes and then she went in the little trolley thing. And I was taking photos of her like this is her first little trip somewhere. I mean, it's just so ridiculous, isn't it but we all do it. Patrick hadn't got into the hospital yet. And I was like texting him saying, Come on, come on in. And there was a nurse and she looked at Bea and she wrote lots of things down and I was kind of just standing up being fussy, you know, not new mum, but you know, fussy mum. And she said, Okay, so she's got a cleft palate. And I think she's got Down syndrome. And just, I was just like, what, what did you say? And I was like, standing up. So just sat down. And I was just, you know, obviously, as well, I've just given birth, my head wasn't in the right place. And I just remember being like a big punch in the gut, what is going on now? What thing to say, yeah, it was really strange the way she delivered it. And then, because she'd said the word Down Syndrome, lots of people were rushed into the room and like consultants and stuff to do a proper review of Bea. And they said, clinically, she doesn't have Down Syndrome. She does have the cleft palate, she has some other things going on. And then at that point, Bea had some problems breathing and went a bit bluish. And then they whisked her off into the NICU. And I was left in that room with the woman who told me.
Genevieve Porritt 26:31
So they confirmed that she didn't have Down syndrome? Yeah, they did. So did they apologise?
Lauren Fenton 26:36
Yeah, so they did, I guess all a bit blurry in that period. So we went into she went into neonatal, and they had to run a whole bunch of tests, because also she'd had this breathing episode, because there were a few things that were noticed. So she actually was fine. Like her breathing was fine subsequently. I think it was to do with the cleft palate and just and she had to ban and a foot abnormality like but they kept just saying, Oh, this can happen in utero. So the cleft palate and the feet, they put down to her being a position in utero. And I'll never forget the consultant, she just every time she saw me, she would just be going, it's nothing more than that. It's nothing, it's nothing. And they ran all these tests, or we went to GOSH, to the cleft team. And then we were discharged eight days later or something, so we weren't in for that long. And then a week after that, so when Bea was two weeks old, we went back to the hospital for another heart scan, another checkup. Because it we were just going off a list of all the major organs that they needed to have various test on look at I think it's because they sat down syndrome, it kind of kicked a process in, as well as Yeah, as well as the fact that there were some abnormalities spotted at birth. And the scan was fine. And they were like, oh, yeah, the heart's fine. The cardiologist was like all like cheery and like, the way he delivered the news. And we came out and the consultant had come to meet us. And she said, we've got back some results. I'm just going to find a room. In my head, I never connected, why she would need to find a room. Like talking of acceptance, I think I found it really hard in a hospital in those early days that I couldn't breastfeed. Bea never breastfed. And I found it really hard, knowing that she had the cleft palate, and she had the foot abnormality, and she was quite small. And some of the little things that we we knew about, I'd been processing and trying to accept. And I think I'd got to a point where that was like, oh, that's like nothing, and I totally accept it. And Bea is brilliant. And she is brilliant. Regardless, full stop. Yeah, it was in a really good place. And then they took us into the room and said, we ran all the genetic testing on her blood. And we've found that she's got 18 q deletion syndrome. And Patrick and I just were completely blindsided.
Genevieve Porritt 29:05
So you hadn't considered that there was an overriding condition. That these were the symptoms.
Lauren Fenton 29:11
No I think, well, one because we just hadn't. I didn't think like that it hadn't crossed my mind. But also they just kept saying to me, it's fine.
Genevieve Porritt 29:22
That's the only information you can take, is what they're saying. Yeah. So yeah, that's a very quick diagnosis.
Lauren Fenton 29:28
Yeah. So I think there's like there was definite benefits to that, in that we knew from like day dot almost that you know, there was some potential I hate saying challenges, challenges that we would have to overcome, but we knew but there was a lot of unpredictability, like a lot of like all of our kids, some kids are impacted more severely than others and it will impact on different things and there's a huge like variation within 18 Q, and a lot not known and very few case studies. So we were given these case studies to go home with, and a little leaflet print out. And we went sat in a cafe, I'll never go in that cafe again. And, and just distraught. And then we went home, like brave faces for Olivia. And then at night, I remember phoning our parents and hearing Patrick, like, broke down on the phone to his parents. And it was like, like, I've never heard him cry. He's not. He's just not somebody who's emotionally breaks down like that, and feeling quite? I don't know, it was just, it's just a strange, surreal time, isn't it? So yeah, that was that was birth story. And then yeah, we had the support and the interventions and all the appointments that you know, like out of hospital constantly, and I think I just thought I could be superwoman. And
Genevieve Porritt 31:08
I'm curious, because you had that diagnosis so quickly. So Dylan wasn't fully diagnosed with a condition until he was three years old. And I think that put me in a state of denial, because not having the diagnosis, and therefore any examples of what could happen in the future, I was dead set on him being able to walk and making sure that that was going to happen. So physio was top of the list to do every day and everything, all the other treatments, occupational therapy, as well, and anything we needed to go into hospital for. And I'm curious as to whether so you had a similar similar that I think we both have similar ways of needing to control everything. And that sort of sense of denial, in a similar way of that detachment, that you've had Rina of being like, Okay, what do I need to do I need to do this, this is something that I need to focus on. How, how do you think that sort of manifested itself into the day to day of needing to control things? And then were there any moments within that, that helped you reach new levels of acceptance, and maybe took you out of denial?
Lauren Fenton 32:35
Yeah, I've talked about it before, but I did, I was just militant about trying to do everything. So you asked about knowing from early on, I guess, we didn't know what the future held, no one does. But I was gonna make damn sure that I did everything I could to make possibilities for Bea, and the opportunities for Bea as great as I could. And I would flip probably from doing every therapy and reading about every therapy that I could to then like moments of just, I guess, part, partly the denial, but wanting to go out and let my hair down and have time away from it. So you know, jumping from one extreme to the other, I remember being pregnant with Bea, and we went on holiday. And I was with Olivia, obviously, and she was little and I remember feeling a bit guilty because I was about to have another baby and but she still needs me, she's so little. We were by a swimming pool and looked at the swimming pool. And I just had this image of oh, no I'm going to have these two wonderful daughters. And I'm gonna be jumping from the side of that pool into the water with one daughter in each hand. And I had this thing in my head and I remember like kicking back with music in my ears, I think I was listening to Lana Del Rey or something and it was like all very chilled, and visualising this. Then when you get this news that given the case studies, she may not walk, she may not do this, she may not do that this is going to be different this time around. I remember rethinking that image. And you know, I have to say Bea is seven now, I'm still not in a position that I can hold both kids and jump into the swimming pool with them. But we will do that on you know, our way at some stage in the future. We'll we'll figure it out. But yeah, it's hard, isn't it? Because you've got to let go of that. And I think it's, it's there were things that helped but for me it kind of crept. That acceptance kind of crept in over time, because I was learning to let go of some shit learning not to control everything because you just physically can't. Listening to Patrick try has helped me to let go of shit and tell me that like it was really important that it also look after myself. And as you get to know your child, because they're not a syndrome, they are who they are. Both my daughters are wonderful human beings, I would say, because I'm massively biased. And you know, they'll Yeah, yeah, they'll be, there'll be and like, in the meantime, the most important thing is just pour so much love into them and, you know, stop agonising over what the future can bring. Because yeah, I think all of that stuff we will, we'll know that in theory, but I think over time, you start to really live that and think that. But it's gradual. And I don't think it's finished. It's not like you wake up and go, Oh, everything's great. Now, this is our life. And that stays with you. They're always setbacks and moments. And I think, and I challenge myself, you know, like, sometimes when we try to do something to help Bea and then I'm like thinking, Oh, am I doing this really to help her to be more independent? Or am I trying to mould her or to make my life easier? And maybe that's like Patrick would say, Well, maybe that's okay. Maybe it's okay to have your life easier as well.
Genevieve Porritt 36:20
So you have to question question those decisions.
Lauren Fenton 36:23
Yeah. And yeah, and maybe it's not so much whether you're helping it to be independent, but it's like, is it you doing it in the right way at the right time? You know, maybe she's not ready yet. for that. It's really hard.
Rina Teslica 36:36
I have the thing where what I've noticed recently, which is makes me kind of think about what I'm doing is like when they start to do something new. And then you're like, oh, and then you want them to do loads of other things at the same time. Yeah. And it's like the pressure you're giving them so like with Lua she's, she's only started eating in the last year. So Lua's still nonverbal, but she communicates with her hands and Makaton. And once she started to eat, which was like I've worked for six years to try and get her to eat orally. Once she started doing that, I was like, right, now you're gonna stop talking. And we're going to do this. And we're going to do that. And it's like, stop, just enjoy what she's achieved. And let her decide. Kind of Arbs has always been kind of a voice in my head because he was accepting of her like immediately. It was like an instant. Okay, she's born with additional needs and we didn't get a diagnosis for six months. Having said that, when the doctors once she was born, and they took her to the ward, like, look at her and do the head to toe. Yeah. And obviously, they checked her heart immediately. And the cardiologists were standing there. And kind of we were expecting something to do with the heart, because that's kind of what we had been told would be the problem. He looked at her and he just went, I think she's got Noonan Syndrome.
Lauren Fenton 38:01
Wow, very similar.
Rina Teslica 38:02
Like, yeah, immediately, and I was like, a) syndrome, like we've never considered a syndrome, like syndrome was not in our minds. It was only a heart condition, probably a hole in the heart or something else and surgery, rather than, yeah, so when he said syndrome, like my, my feet were just gone. Like, I just wanted to faint. It took so long. And I because it took six months for the diagnosis. I was constantly now she doesn't have it. If she had it, they would have told us by now. Come on. It's fine. She doesn't have anything.
Lauren Fenton 38:33
Right. So you were in denial before the news.
Rina Teslica 38:36
Yeah, totally in denial. I started to ask because it was like six months I was I need confirmation that she doesn't have it and like, come on enough. You know, and I started to ask the consultants, you know, about Noonan syndrome and syndromes in general. And I three consultants were like, I don't know whether they said this to make me feel better or whatever. Even the geneticists two consultants and a geneticist, all said to me, if I could pick a syndrome, I would pick Noonan syndrome out of them all. And I was like, okay, so must be that bad, you know, and they were like, it's, you know, the
Lauren Fenton 39:10
Strange thing to say.
Rina Teslica 39:11
They were like, they tend to have normal lives, and they can, you know, doesn't affect them that much. Lalalala, when we did get the diagnosis, she has the rarest form of Noonan syndrome, which means that they have a lot of additional needs, and is not as... And Noonan syndrome is kind of like autism has massive spectrum. So although they said that to help me, it really did not at all, because when I did get diagnosed, it was like, What the F**k man?
Lauren Fenton 39:39
Yeah, that's a bit like them saying, well, it's nothing to me. Like, oh, actually it is.
Rina Teslica 39:45
It's a big deal.
Lauren Fenton 39:46
Yeah, that's mad isn't it. That's hard.
Rina Teslica 39:49
But like, I think I'm grateful that the word Noonan syndrome was floated around so early so that it wasn't so much of a shock when it was confirmed. Yeah. No, although in that moment, like for eight, we're gonna say, seven and a half months of her, of me being pregnant with her, syndrome was not a thing. Like it wasn't even, it was just like, Oh, I'm pregnant, but my kid is gonna have surgery on her heart, and it's all gonna be fine. And that's it, we'll go home. And then that first who was a day on and like, oh, yeah, Noonan syndrome.
Genevieve Porritt 40:24
And that was like to you the worst?
Rina Teslica 40:28
The worst thing you could say.
Genevieve Porritt 40:29
But then it took some time for you to understand that that may not in fact, be the worst. So by the time you got the actual diagnosis were you in in more of a place to be able to accept it?
Rina Teslica 40:41
I was relieved from both I was relieved. And because it because it took so long, because her form was so rare. There was at that time, only 11 people in the world with the crass form of Noonan syndrome. So there was hardly any we didn't get any information on what Noonan syndrome, how the crass form of Noonan syndrome affects all we had was Noonan syndrome. And you it's the PTTP form, which is the most general version of Noonan syndrome, where they tend to like cognitively be relatively normal. They go to mainstream schools, and they tend to have feeding issues but you know, relatively normal lives. So, that's kind of what we were imagining. And because Lua's facially she doesn't present with Noonan syndrome, which is why they were so confused, right? So they were like, she's got some symptoms, but not all. And facially she doesn't have Noonan syndrome, but then her physicalities were so they were very confused. Like, I'm really happy. I was like, flying out that office, the room. Like, she's got Noonan syndrome, yes, yes. It's a great, yes. Easy syndrome, they would all have it if they could.
Lauren Fenton 42:02
I think language as well, like you talked about syndrome, I think that can have a mass I remember. Like, I remember, friends and family using the term special needs to describe Bea or describe her needs when she was a baby still and almost recoiling them using that term. Because I hadn't used that term yet. And I used to refer to be as having challenges, she has a few challenges. I mean, f**ksakes, we all have challenges she had needs. You know, and then but then you you know, then you find your way with what language you're going to use. And I'm still not comfortable with some of the language that I use now. I just have to use it because, or it's easier to use, because that's what therapy, school, other people around me are using, and it fits and it makes sense to people. But yeah, I remember having a very visceral reaction to other people defining my child as something which was clearly tied up in how I was in denial and I was I'd been socialised to think certain things.
Genevieve Porritt 43:12
Things about those words. Yeah, absolutely. That is really interesting how language can affect and how your development and understanding of language around disability then changes. Yeah, how you talk about your child how you advocate for them, and how maybe how you talk on their behalf as well
Lauren Fenton 43:29
completely? I think yeah, I think it took a long time before I actually would refer to Bea as being disabled, I didn't use that term at all,
Rina Teslica 43:39
I still hate that word.
Genevieve Porritt 43:41
But it's it's interesting when you when you start to with with Dylan and you start to have to access things or accessibility but access disabled toilets or access disabled parking, you have to use the language to be able to communicate communicate with other people what his needs are, therefore you don't want to shy away from using it and you have to accept this is a word that society uses for us to be able to access the things he needs to access so using it is going to do him give him more power in the long run than not but it took me a long time to not think about it in that way. Yeah that physically recalling at having to say something because you have been conditioned to believe that this is not not something that is accepted in society.
Lauren Fenton 44:36
Yeah. And it did just also like the denial of it almost feeling like a definition that you didn't want at that point in time. And all the all that comes with that. Yeah, completely. I would definitely we'll do a full episode on language in a future series because I think there's a lot to say and we probably need to learn as much as anything Rina, don't we.
Rina Teslica 45:00
Definitely
Genevieve Porritt 45:00
This maybe brings us on to talking about whether there were any external influences or experiences, which contributed to a new level of acceptance for either of you. I know with me, around that same time that I was thinking more about language and the language I used, I suppose it probably around the same time that Dylan started to talk more, I would really start to become interested in the language I was using, and I would be on Instagram following disabled adults and read. And it really changed how I spoke around him how I spoke on behalf of him, but also how we did things like physiotherapy, because I wanted him to fit into the mould her normal. Yeah, exactly. reading some of those books really made me just completely take my foot off the accelerator, it was actually in lockdown. So it was very magnified and intense what we were doing, it was just me and him. And I just took my foot off, and we just chilled and it really helped us both really helped us both mentally, to just flow a bit more in life and become more accepting. So wondered if there was anything in
Lauren Fenton 46:22
I think the pandemic like I would say I was I got to a level of acceptance before the pandemic. And that was largely through books that I had read. I've mentioned 'Far from the Tree' before on the podcast that really shook me up as a kind of different way of looking at identity and disability. But then, the pandemic really focused the mind on what was important, that perspective of family and keeping people safe. And that being kind of all you could do. And the most important thing, I think that really stepped up a level of acceptance for me that in connecting with other people, so when Bea was really quite little still I was set up on a blind date, by her physio, not with a man or or lady for sexual reasons. But my physio asked me if I would like to be put in touch with someone who she thought I might get along with. And she did the same to my friend, Sharon. And then I went, I got her number, she got my number. We couldn't know much about each other because of patient confidentiality. We were just kind of matched. And then I went knocking on her door after we arranged to meet and yeah, we've been friends ever since. So I think just having making those early connections with some people who've got similar stories or not that similar but you know, they're they're experiencing versions that that overlap.
Rina Teslica 48:03
But I have a very similar one actually, I completely forgot about this. When when we were in hospital, and they take you to that dreaded room and they tell you well, they told us all she needs a tracheostomy, which is like, the worst news in the world. Because it's all this extra work and you've got a thing in your throat whatever, obviously had a breakdown in that room in front of like six doctors and was very upsetting. And the on wards they have like a clinical lead. And she kind of pulled me aside. She's like, do you want to meet another mum, who was in the same position as you? Whose son was born here had a tracheostomy there in the community, whatever. And I was like, No, I don't want to know. She did it anyway. Got this woman to come in with her son and her older daughter. She's, she waited, they didn't even tell me. She was waiting in the room for me. And Ashleigh was like she's in there. If you want to meet her, you don't have to, but she's here for you if you want to. And I was like, it's amazing. Yeah. And I was like, Okay, fine. f**k it. Like this is a reality. Lua will need this tracheostomy. So I may as well go and meet this mum. And her son was the cutest boy ever. Like I fell in love with him. And she was just talking about how, yes, he's got a trachy, but they go out. They live a normal life like it's fine. And he was showing me he was three and he was showing me like little tricks. I was putting his finger in his trachy to like, scream. And it was just so cute. And I left like walking on air. I was like, it is not the end of the world. Like, it's fine. Why am I being so dramatic? Yes it's a lot of work and all these things are gonna happen. But look how happy this mom is. Look how happy her son was. And then I got to repay that. So once we left hospital, about a year on Ashleigh got in contact with me it was like we have a mum with a daughter. Who has just had a tracheostomy and the mum is just really struggling. Can you come in please? I just want her to see you and Lua. And I came in and I obviously went into Ashleigh's office to meet some of the nurses that we had spent loads of with and the lady's mother was outside. And I walk out and obviously Lua has she always wears a bib because she's so dribly. She likes sticks stuff in her mouth. So I don't do it to cover the tracheostomy. I do it to keep it dry. Yeah, so she walked down. She was like, oh my god, this is Rina look. Her daughter's got a tracheostomy in the lady's mum was like, what? Where, and the mum was struggling with the whole concept of trachy. And it being so in your face. And just so medical, which I also struggled in the beginning, I hated it. Like, it's the first thing that you notice in a child and I didn't like that.
Genevieve Porritt 50:47
You always call them appendages don't you?
Rina Teslica 50:49
Yeah. Yeah, the bits. So yeah, so she's like, where is it? How are you? Oh, my God. Oh. And Ashleigh was like you've really helped her to under to see that it's fine and normal, you know. And the mum met Lua and she just understood, she cried. And but she saw that it's not a big deal. And I just felt like, it was just so nice to pay back because I was there. Yeah, where she was two years previously
Genevieve Porritt 51:15
Is Ashleigh a nurse?
Rina Teslica 51:17
She's like a clinical leader, she was just the best.
Lauren Fenton 51:20
It's interesting what you say about as well then, like, the kind of how it looks to other people. Because I think that's a level of kind of acceptance or getting over it. Get over yourself, get over it. Who cares what other people think that we will have to sort of experience not so much other people's acceptance, but not caring what other people are think. Yeah, and actually that can catch you sometimes I think it comes back to kind of having to challenge yourself, or I certainly feel I have to challenge myself sometimes because we had this thing not that long ago, where eyes started rolling back in her head a lot. And she was under lots of neuro investigations for whether she was having seizures. And I was really, really like trying to get to the bottom of it from a neuro perspective. And I think I knew that it was probably just a tic and just a kind of habitual thing that she was doing. But I was to the ends of the earth trying to explore what it meant, is she having a seizure? What's going on? Why neurology neurologically, she's doing this? And I think that was a bit if I'm really honest, I think that was a bit because it it looked so strange when she did it. And it was really noticeably strange. And she still does it, she doesn't do it quite as much. She was doing it a lot more pronounced in that period. And that was me like quite far on, you know, into what I thought was a level of acceptance. But suddenly, I'm like, caring about whether my kid does something that looks strange. And it's you just, it's just ridiculous, and not fair and hard and a waste of energy to be even thinking about it like that.
Genevieve Porritt 52:57
I suppose acceptance doesn't mean everything's okay. And you're happy all the time. You just kind of take the days as they come. And sometimes they're shit, and sometimes they're okay. You just keep going and work through it. I felt the other day. I was so tired and so stressed, which I think really counts towards it. And I felt really exposed just walking in the park was Dylan. It felt like every single person was looking at his wheelchair and you could kind of see their thought process of them. Like the the oh, there's a kid in a wheelchair. Oh, pity. Oh, now he's gone again, and just annoying, and it just made you want to be at home. But then some days are hard still. Do you have that still?
Rina Teslica 53:46
I mean, I've had one. I mean, recently, maybe like six months ago, we were in hospital with Lua doing a checkup about the tracheostomy. And we kind of had pinned our hopes that this was it, that we were gonna get some good news and maybe a date to have it removed. And we didn't. She's not ready. They needed to do some extra things and they kind of were like, removing the trachy's on the backburner. And because she made so much progress, we were like, it's bound to happen. Like it's gonna happen. They're gonna take they're gonna say like, beginning of summer and we're gonna like remove it or trial it lalala. So when they gave us the bad news, it was like, somebody had cut my feet. And I was like, just on the floor. And I was like, f**k, because we really didn't expect it. I didn't expect to have the bad news at all. Like wasn't even in my thought process. So then I like you kind of hold it together when you're with the doctors even though I was quite bitchy. And I was like, what, what where is this coming from? And I was very snappy. And Arbs was like, holding me back, calm down, you know? And then I just walked away and I went into the gosh I like the cafeteria. And I just walked in. And there was like all these kids who all had lots of different issues, but none of them had, as I say, the appendages like Lua has, and I just couldn't be there. I was like, I hate you all. I could not stand seeing any child in that moment, I just decided to leave the hospital, go and grab a coffee somewhere else where I didn't see any children.
Lauren Fenton 55:24
That's kind of a protection and a smart move in a way though like. I think it would be much worse if you were seething but stayed.
Rina Teslica 55:33
But I think it's I got over it very quickly, like I walked in, and then that hit that hit, you know, like, a cold or like a knock. And then I was like, right? What are my choices here? I could stay and yes, seethe and just be annoying, or just move, just get out of there and take some time. And I think had this happened a couple years ago, I would have just I think I would have cried, I would have cried, gone into a deep dark hole and it would have just been a spiral of shit. So I've learnt with acceptance of Lua and higher bits and all the diagnoses and everything else. That yes, you get some days that are great, and some days are not. So in that time, she got rid of the ventilation that she was on, so it was a positive. And so I've learned to kind of take the positives with the negatives and just keep on truckin.
Genevieve Porritt 56:27
Yeah, I think it's definitely that, isn't it? It's the learning of acceptance. That helps you get through the days easier, even if they're shit ones, even if they're good ones.
Rina Teslica 56:40
Yeah. And it's giving yourself time to like, allow yourself to feel that. And I remember, like I sent a message to you guys, like, I just need to get it out. I couldn't say it to Arbs because I think because we were so in a shit place. I wasn't going to turn him over. Like I hate kids. And so I sent you guys a message like, I just need to write it, get out of my system and let it go. And I think it's important to accept your feelings, not bury them.
Lauren Fenton 57:10
Be honest about your feelings in that moment.
Genevieve Porritt 57:13
Yeah, and actually writing, i find writing them down so therapeutic. Literally just gets it all out. It's all out in the open, whether that's journaling or in a safe text message space. I find that so helpful, and it can pass really quickly. Yeah, in that way, feeling those feelings? And then Okay, it's done. What's next?
Lauren Fenton 57:34
Yeah, you can dispel it. It's perspective, isn't it? I think, you know, as the acceptance comes, being a parent to kids with disability, you get like this gift, hate using terms like that. But you get this gift around perspective and what really matters. And as you are more accepting of and in a more kind of acceptance place. That perspective grows as well, I feel like you just like you say you acknowledge that there are going to be bad days, or there are going to be things that you don't know that come and hit you and surprise you. But then you kind of know how to deal with that better. It's perspective that you get, it's understanding that you get you get more patient with yourself and with the child. There's so many things that you learn and get better at as a person as a consequence.
Genevieve Porritt 58:28
Is there anything either of you think that is actually, going from that learning how acceptance has helped you deal with the day to day and being kinder to yourselves... Is there anything that has actually changed in your lives that you can? Something tangible? Yeah, that's tangible from that
Lauren Fenton 58:48
I am being more aware that I can't control everything. So my To Do Lists was always like a bit of an issue for me. Like, I have to do lists, and I have sub to do lists, and I have to do lists for different parts of the day. And it's, it gets slightly obsessive. And I've been Yeah, much better at kind of Bea isn't a to do list for f**ksakes. She is a child that needs love and support. So I used to have a kind of not a Bea to do list, but a list of things that you know, therapies, I was going to explore hospitals that I need to chase or, you know, things I was going to help her to learn. And I'm not saying I don't have some of those things still in terms of, you know, obviously there are hospital chasing that you need to do, but I don't I don't kind of obsess about it or list it out. Yeah. It's like being kinder to yourself, like you say about what actually matters and not not trying to kind of micromanage and control because it's pointless. Yeah,
Rina Teslica 59:55
that's good one. Definitely. I think for me If we had a discussion earlier we were talking about one of the biggest things with acceptance is your own ideas of what you want your child to achieve or do. And actually, it's not up to you and your beliefs it's up to them and when they decide that they're ready to do x y and z. And I think for such a long time, I was so adamant in wanting Lua to get rid of the trachy or walk or whatever that it. It mod my acceptance of her as a child as an individual, because I wanted her to achieve all these things. But actually, I had to get to a point where I accepted her for who she was, yeah, who she is what her life pattern is, without me interfering in that. Yeah. And I think once I got to that, that was the biggest kind of 'ding' moment for me was like, I see you and I'm not going to try. I think once she started to walk when she walked I think for me, that was the turning point where I was like, Okay, you are going to do all the things that you're meant to do without me piling on the pressure. Yeah. And I think because she walked so late (she was four and a bit) and it had been like, this big thing of like, Why isn't she walking, I want her to walk. I want her to be independent. Push, push, push, push, push, pressure, pressure, pressure, and she was having none of it until she decided, yeah, okay, fine. I'm ready. I'm gonna do it. And it was so like,
Genevieve Porritt 1:01:37
It came from her?
Rina Teslica 1:01:40
From her yeah. And it was so out of the blue, it was so like,
Genevieve Porritt 1:01:44
But without that pressure without that, and also the setup for failure. Because if you're pushing someone who is beyond their limitations at that point, you just feel like you're failing as a mum, and they feel like they are and it gets to weigh too much
Rina Teslica 1:02:00
Feeding was like that, that the eating oh my god, it was just the worst time of my life. And because I'd studied nutrition and love food, and it's such a big part of life for me, for her not to be able to eat was like, I had it in my head, like, you are going to eat, I'm going to make you eat. And that was kind of how I went into it. So every therapy that we had every I would cry I would it was just the worst timing like it just and she hated it. She could feel my deep desire for her to eat. But also she wasn't anywhere near ready. So it was just like, a fight between her and I. And then obviously, it's all the blame, like what am I doing wrong? Why is she not doing this and Lalalala. I just pulled the foot off the pedal for like, a year and a half. I was like, f**k this. She don't want to eat, she ain't gonna eat. I just stopped completely. And then just something happened. She just decided actually, now is the time. It happened so randomly, like, of course, I was still trying give her stuff to eat whatever
Genevieve Porritt 1:02:00
You still offer it right? You just take just no pressure the pressure off? Yes, exactly the same happened with and I just assumed, you know, obviously they are fed via a tube. And they're fed during that time. But yeah, take the pressure off. And the anxiety within me, his anxiety was so much better. And it's that same thing that acceptance of there are other ways to eat. You can be tube fed, he's still getting the nutrition, they're still getting the nutrition that they need. They're still gaining weight, they are still getting everything they need, except that that's the way they're going to do it for the moment. And whatever happens happen.
Lauren Fenton 1:03:40
Yeah, it's letting go of those like targets and goals that you set for your child that are based on a set of assumptions that you hold about what their future should be or what their life should be, and just not trying to impose all of that conformity on them. But actually, let them be who they are. And I think yeah, it's hard, though. It's hard. And I'm not gonna pretend there aren't days where I wish that Bea could communicate better with me all the time that I catch myself thinking about it, but you also appreciating the things that they can do and the people that they are because, you know, Lua's aass and determination. And I just love the fact that she decides when she's going to do that just sounds like a completely Lua. Yeah. And like when she does want to communicate at the moment, Bea's got a really silly sense of humour. If she breaks wind, I'll like say something. I mean, it's very juvenile. She has a child, and she will blame everybody else, like even people that aren't there. And then she'll chuckle to yourself Becasue she finds it so funny.
Genevieve Porritt 1:04:55
Flatulence is funny with young kids.
Lauren Fenton 1:04:58
Let's be honest, it's kinda fun, funny with adults too.
Rina Teslica 1:05:02
Like we don't blame our partners when we fart! Come on, let's be real.
Lauren Fenton 1:05:06
Yeah, so just focus on the cans, not the can'ts. Celebrate. Don't mourn.
Genevieve Porritt 1:05:13
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Lauren Fenton 1:05:15
Yeah, that one. Having good days and bad days is something you have to be conscious of.
Rina Teslica 1:05:19
It's inevitable when you have a child with special needs. I think it's just like it's never going to be plain sailing. It's always going to you're always going to look to the to the next bump, but I think you just get better at riding the ride the wave ride the wave Yeah, yeah.
Genevieve Porritt 1:05:35
Well, thank you both so much for coming on my podcast. Sorry, that slipped out.
Lauren Fenton 1:05:41
Well thank you for offering your services
Rina Teslica 1:05:46
To host our pod? Our our podcast?
Genevieve Porritt 1:05:51
It's been really fun. And I think yeah, great.
Lauren Fenton 1:05:54
Not so scary. No, no,
Rina Teslica 1:05:56
No, don't mind being on this side of the mic. May consider doing again.
Lauren Fenton 1:06:00
I hope that that's helped listeners to get a bit more of a picture of who we are Rina and my story as well. Yeah. Or our separate stories.
Rina Teslica 1:06:10
Our story together!
Lauren Fenton 1:06:11
That's another episode. Anyway,
Genevieve Porritt 1:06:15
yeah. Brilliant. I think it's time to end with my f**king normal. Oh, yeah. And we hadn't introduced my f**king normal when it was my episode at the beginning of the podcast. That's okay. Um, so I'll start us off. So my f**king normal is my child does not eat orally, but it's so f**king passionate about food has taken to feeding me my dinner every night.
Rina Teslica 1:06:41
Love it. Oh yum!
Genevieve Porritt 1:06:47
And what's yours?
Lauren Fenton 1:06:49
Well, my f**king normal is being late, because I've had to sit on the pavement or anywhere in the street and wait for my daughter to finish the book that she's reading.
Rina Teslica 1:07:05
Now we know why you're always late. Yeah, my f**king normal is getting over my social dislike of talking to strangers because my daughter's such a social butterfly that she grabs on to any available hand and gives it a kiss.
Genevieve Porritt 1:07:27
Oh, they're all adorable. I love it.
Rina Teslica 1:07:30
I love it. Thank you so much Gen. It's been great
Genevieve Porritt 1:07:34
Shall we do the bye. Okay, bye. All right.
Lauren Fenton 1:07:38
Thank you so much for listening to the f**king normal podcast. We love making this podcast. Yes, we do. We are part of a much bigger team, almost exclusively all parents of disabled children. And our goal is to reach as many people as possible and create a community of support for parents and carers who share our experiences.
Rina Teslica 1:07:59
So if you've liked what you've heard, please like and subscribe so that we can reach out to more people. You can find more information on this and other episodes at f**king normal podcast.com That's f k ing normal podcast.com you can join us on Facebook and on Instagram at f**king normal underscore podcast. That's f k ing normal underscore podcast. You can get all the links and more information in the show notes below.
Lauren Fenton 1:08:23
So thanks so much for listening all the way to the end. We'll see you next time.
Rina Teslica 1:08:28
Byeeee "kissing noise"
